New Achievement Scoring Explained!
by Xxav on June 24, 2009, 1:35 am, under World of Warcraft
There is now a new system in place which places different weights on each achievement. These weights were based off a survey that I had posted yesterday.
guildprogress.com
Development Blog
June 26th, 2009 on 11:01 am
One thing I’m curious about is why achievements for completing a hard-mode or mid-mode (ie Freya with 1 or 2 keepers) is worth LESS than half an easy-mode kill.
If two hypothetical guilds have the same achievements and same boss kills, but one killed Mimiron earlier and the other killed Freya+1 and Freya+2 earlier, it sounds like the Mimiron guild gets precedence.
I completely agree with the weighing down of non-hardmode-related achievements, but once you start doing FL+1/2/3, FR+1/2, IC Brundir last, three lights, etc, I’d think that these encounters should be worth more than 30-40pts, and that the actual hard-mode fights (encounters that drop the hard-mode loot) should be worth the same as a normal mode, not just half.
June 26th, 2009 on 11:41 am
I was considering this as well. What achievements should be made worth the same or more than a regular kill? Maybe I should just make achievement base values the same as bosses. I’ll try that out.
June 26th, 2009 on 12:03 pm
I changed it so achievement base values are now the same as a boss kill. Both have a max value of up to 101 points. Would you guys like to see the hard mode achievements made to be worth MORE than a boss kill?
June 26th, 2009 on 12:24 pm
I don’t think that’s as necessary. It will happen by default, because more guilds will have killed Flame Leviathan with 0 towers than those who killed it with 1 tower.
June 26th, 2009 on 12:49 pm
Right, I agree. Thanks for your input
June 30th, 2009 on 9:31 am
This doesn’t quite pertain to the new weighting system specifically, but how are same-date achievements handled? Because there is only a date associated with the achievement and not a time, I think all guilds with the same date should get an equal amount of points.
An example where I see this is not the case is on Daggerspine-US when comparing vs I notice that gets more points for 10 man “Shutout!” (19.42 vs 19.01) even though both guilds display that it was completed on 4/15/09.
June 30th, 2009 on 6:34 pm
I still find this system a little illogical. Many of these achievements have nothing to do with progression. They may be fun, but more hardcore guild will ignore them, harming their rank under your system.
An example would be shutout. Shutout is not possible when you add towers. My guild does 4 towers every week, and will continue to do so until everyone has all the gear they want from four towers drops. We should not get penalized for this. We began doing additional towers pretty much the second week. Same thing with the Unbroken achievement…it is illogical to try to pair that with a 4-towers run.
I do not believe that achievements that do not actually mark progression should have anything to do with rank. These are fun “asides” to do, nothing more. Let’s look at nine lives. My guild nukes the defenders when they are up everytime, but Auriaya doesn’t live beyond three. It isn’t that we can’t do the achievement, it is that we don’t want to waste the time midweek while that time could be spent working on more important hard modes. If you want to have a separate achievement rank, by all means, but they should not factor into your ranking system per se. Or better put, it is illogical for a guild that has numerous hard modes down to be beat by a guild that doesn’t have one yet because that other guild has the more meaningless achievements…especially when those guilds may have to pass on those achievements altogether. Even using these non-significant achievements under a ranking system makes no sense. Who cares who got the world first “Disarmed” achievement? Did they get more loot for it? Did they get closer to completing a hard mode for it? If you do want to factor these in, give guilds a raw but small amount of points for them, unadjusted by world order to get it. World order should only factor into significant achievements which lead to hard mode kills or are hardmode kills.
June 30th, 2009 on 6:42 pm
@Venatori – Currently, whatever achievement is recorded first on the site gets the edge. It’s on my list of things to make all achievements earned on same day to be worth the same.
@Wasserjunge – I can definitely make certain achievements worth nothing and just have them shown for the sake of fun. What achievements do you considered to be not worthy of ranking for progression (even if they are worth very little? ) ?
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July 2nd, 2009 on 3:19 am
I do agree with Ebs2002.
If easy mode bosses worth more than its hard mode achievement, they are basically encouraging guilds to kill the bosses in easy modes first before they do hard modes.
Some guilds prefer to challenge and give themselves a try on hard mode because it is something not many guilds can do. And since it is not likely attainable by casual guilds, the decay wouldn’t be too much if the casual guild tend to complete it many weeks later (after some nerf)
July 3rd, 2009 on 2:28 pm
I am having problems accessing the site. When i go to type in a guild name, or go to a server, ect, i keep getting redirected, saying the page doesn’t exist. Some other people I know are having the same problem.
July 9th, 2009 on 12:13 am
Sorry I didn’t get back to this sooner. Basically, it would be better to look at which achievements SHOULD count.
FL+1-4 should each count as each of these are a clear logical step toward progression.
Heartbreaker should count, this is a hardmode and is an actual progression encounter.
No other achievements in siege.
IC- All three should count, Brundir, Molegeim and Steelbreaker…all of these are steps toward progression. Although, because you already give credit for Brundir as a IC kill, you may leave that one out.
Kolo, Auriaya should not have any.
Freya+1-3 should have achieves
Hodir cache, Thorim’s true hardmode achieve only (there is one that just has to do with engaging while sif is there, that one doesn’t count…gotta get the kill one)
and of course, the real landmark, Firefighter.
General Vezax hardmode one and then Yogg -1-3 (we can ignore the FoS, as it is not even considered possible atm “Alone in the Darkness”.
Each of these are either progression steps toward a hardmode kill or the hardmode kill themselves.
Any other achievements are fun, but anyone that can get the kill can likely perform the achieve. Many won’t waste time until they complete the hardmodes and algalon to bullshit around for the extra minor achieves…unless they just happen to pick them up randomly. As ranking should be done solely based on actual progression and progression dates though, all other achieves really hold no significance.
July 9th, 2009 on 12:19 am
Just to couple upon that, you may very well want to give 1 or 2 UNADJUSTED points (meaning the first person to get achieve gets the same as the last) for these minor achievements just as a reflection of the effort to get them being taken. But, I would hate to see them be given so much of a point value that it begins to misrepresent the actual progress of a guild.
July 9th, 2009 on 12:23 am
Right. And that’s what I am trying to avoid. For example, ensidia is widely regarded as one of the top raiding guilds yet it is so low on the rankings due to not having completed many of the “minor” achievements. It looks like I will have to re-work the weighing of the achievements.
July 9th, 2009 on 12:35 am
Siege:
Orbital Bombardment(+20)
Orbital Devastation(+20)
Nuked from Orbit(+30)
Orbit-uary(+30)
Heartbreaker (+125)
Antechamber:
I Choose You, Runemaster Molgeim (+50)
I Choose You, Steelbreaker (+75)
Keepers:
Knock on Wood (+40)
Knock, Knock on Wood (+50)
Knock, Knock, Knock on Wood (+60)
Firefighter (+150)
Lose Your Illusion (+100)
I could Say That This Cache Was Rare (+100)
Descent:
I Love the Smell of Saronite in the Morning (+125)
One Light in the Darkness (+40)
Two Lights in the Darkness (+50)
Three Lights in the Darkness (+60)
Planetarium:
Observed (+200)
What I have done here is divide hardmodes into three different levels of difficulty. Hodir, Thorim, and FL+4 are the easiest three hardmodes. The next level of hardmodes would be XT, IC, and Vezax. The hardest level of hardmodes would be Mimi, Freya and Yogg. Finally, the last one should be worth a significant amount higher than all others as the final fight. If you add up the achieves, this gives +100, +125 and +150 based on the difficulty of the hardmode. I understand that you will likely have to tweak how that is handled to make your regression system work, but, I figured I would at least provide you some input on values of achieves.
Try something like this.
July 9th, 2009 on 2:08 am
Alright. I made a pretty radical change to the achievement scoring based on what was suggested here. Let’s see how it unfolds once the calculations are ran.
July 13th, 2009 on 8:12 am
Can’t say I’m a huge fan of achievements now giving 0 points. One of the reasons our guild was even going for these so-called “fun” achievements was because they were reflected on this kind of website for minimal additional effort.
Sure, they may just be “fun” to some, but they do require effort and time (which is obviously so if some guilds don’t want to be bothered to gather up 100 dwarves in the Siege or work on timing Disarmed properly, or controlling their DPS for 9 Lives).
Sure, some are impossible to do for a progression-focused guild (shutout, unbroken), but others only require a little bit of time and effort, and should be rewarded. Probably more than the 0 through 5pts that it’s currently worth.
After all, everyone has their own definition of what’s making progress. For some people, getting Disarmed is a huge deal. You don’t get extra loot, but that’s not the only way to judge — consider that some of these achievements ARE needed for Glory of the Ulduar Raider